?? What`s Fight Club..?

[Webmaster]

First off - Rooster seems to be lamenting the LOSS of Tom Kaye and others. They arent going anywhere! The "unwashed masses" will still ask quesitons, Tom will still answer them, and Tom will stil be asking everyone in the main forum thier opinion on upcoming projects.

The people who get post privilages do so because Tom has met them in real life - or thier posts have caught his attention. I know for a fact post count doesnt mean anything.

And one more thing about new forums etc. We are going to open up a couple new forums - but you guys think this is a magic cure all - its not! We have a hard enough time getting you guys to post where you are supposed to with only 4 forums - if we open it up it will mean even more people will put posts in the wrong place. More forums is all well and good - IF people use them. And thus far I see a ton of tech posts in the main forum and vice versa.

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Webmaster - AutoMags.Org
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"Good...bad...I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash, Army of Darkness

[Rooster]

Like I said, the road to hell is paved with good intensions. By concentrating the intelligence from this forum and putting it on another you are opening the door to their leaving and not coming back. If you could post important ideas somewhere else with out having Joe Noob's OT post pushing it down, wouldn't you?

I agree, the forum is a great idea for making a community of our best and brightest and having them debate things that could make AO, AGD, and paintball better. Its like an artist's colony, or a brain trust. But the problem is that those are closed societies and could very easily become elitest. Will it happen? Who is to say. Could it happen? Of course. Ever read Animal Farm?

I have my own ideas about what a semi-automatic is becuase i was a sport shooter for 10 years. But I have to email cphillip with my ideas becuase aparently I'm not intellegent enough to carry on a conversation with the movers and shakers on this forum.

Seperate but equal isn't equal at all. Either all our opinions count or you might as well revoke all our posting privilages and make the forum a bulitin board. Never have to worry about posts getting buried, never have to worry about flames or noobs making multiple posts. I'd still read it, and then at least I would know what my place is.

I deeply respect the patriarchs of the AO family. They have alot of wisdom to impart. But an invite only forum is is just as bad as an invite only country club or anything else elitest. There is only one thing that makes one elitest organization different from another, and thats when the rules to get in are completely subjective. Having a forum for techs only, or mods only is one thing, this club is something else. Didn't anyone get enough of this popularity contest stuff in high school? Thats what it is. Nominate your buddy, nominate the people you think will be most valuable to you. Then you get people posting stuff like all your posts are fluff, you don't deserve to be in, you nominated yourself, you don't deserve to be in.

The cracks are forming, and the lines are being drawn. Its really sad to me, becuase I love this place. But the fact is that it existed before AGD bought it, and it can exist without them. If enough people find this as much of a problem as I do, whos to say what will happen?

Why should it even come to that? I thought the overwhelming concerns about the forum would have quashed it, and yet today i log in and find it there. All the people pre-invited leap to defend it, and those who find the idea loathesome are told in so many words to learn to like it.

[rt_81]

jeez, what a headache!!! i mean i think the idea could fly, nothing will be hurt in trying. but i feel like im sitting in on a session of congress here. its like were about to decide the fate of the world. paintball is supposed to be fun, thus since this is a paintball site it too should be fun. lets just try it out and go from there. if it doesnt work out, people will voice their opinions at that time and we can do what we need to to fix it.

RT

[Webmaster]

Rooster...

Start your own topic in the main forum. Im sure everyone would love to hear your ideas.

I still dont feel this is an elitist group. I am sorry that you find it that way. Its not a private group for us to stroke eachothers egos (I CAN make it so only people who can post can view the forum). The idea was to get some interesting conversation...

I dunno - I see your point but I just dont think you are giving it a fair shake...

I dont want people to feel like this is an elitist forum - at the same time it *IS* Toms money that makes this all possible - he deserves to have some fun with it...

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Webmaster - AutoMags.Org
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"Good...bad...I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash, Army of Darkness

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 07-18-2001).]

[MagDog68]

Phil, I didn't mean to say your opinions were worthless. Far from it. And I know that you don't just go around posting tons of crap to get your numbers up either.

Actually, i haven't been on as much as normal lately and all these changes happened rather fast. I guess I'll sit down and shut up till I have read through everything and know what is going on

~fRED

[Big Red One]

Rooster, I see your point, but you are looking at it from the wrong angle. Fight Club is a forum where yes, call them the great minds if you will, can gather and discuss in-depth technical aspects of the sport and equipment. But it is not for their enjoyment alone, that is why webby has allowed us to be able to view all that is written, rather than a closed access post.

We can learn while avoiding the inevitable response, like:

AGD---" I believe Caudle Fusion has much to do with the advancement of technology in allowing the 'Cocker to far out range an Automag, don't you"?

newbidoobie---"cockers suck dude"!

We instead will read a response from the likes of Bill Mills, or Miscue among other notable members, reaffirming the fact that no gun out-ranges another and this is the physics to prove it, ya nutty bone hunter.

I am slowly warming to the Fight Club idea, and it will be awhile until I can fully accept it, but until then I will watch Tom's new toy develope.

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That's strange, I could have sworn I left it here.

[Rooster]

I know perfectly well that you can make the forum so that only registered users can access the page. I've intalled UBB more times than i can count, and I've written better board systems myself.

That fact that you would even bring that up solidifies my point even more. I know its all about what Tom wants. I can understand why he wants a forum that eliminates the rif-raf from it. What I hope he understands is that a great many people are going to be upset that they have been left behind.

The correct method of making this forum not seem like an elitest forum is not to tell people it isn't. I've got eyes, I've got a mind, I know whats elitest and whats not, I don't need you to explain it to me.

This forum was for everyone, now its not. The biggest noob and the president of the company were equals, now they arn't.

I'm done caring, which is sad, becuase this used to be something I cared about. I've checked these boards religiously for over 15 months now. If people refuse to see past their own nose, theres no way i can help them.

[manike]

Rooster,

I'm sorry you see it that way. Can you not see it as a way or as an incentive for people to post better and think harder about things in an effort to become a member? Maybe people will stop posting 'ups' and the quality of the whole board will go up.

I have no intention of just posting there. I intend to post here also (although I admit I'm one of webby's bad guys who doesn't look into the tech forum much...

I'm hoping it will be an incentive for people to pay more attention in their physics classes... to learn the maths behind the theories... and to think with an open mind. If doing this gets just a couple of people to think harder about their world then it's a great thing and in my mind makes up for those that don't feel they are part of it... if it helps people find knowledge that would otherwise have been lost on the board it's a good thing.

The only bad thing is that some will be jealous. If that is an incentive for them to be upset that is about their charachter. Jealousy is something we all have to be able to deal with in real life. If it is an incentive for them to learn then that is also about their charachter, and those are the people that this will help.

It is a resource and incentive not a reason for jealousy.

I feel the same way about my peers. I strive to test my mind and to push my limits. I don't sit and get upset at not being able to do it or be part of it, or if someone knows more about something than me. I work hard to become part of it, if I want to be. Knowledge is a valuable thing and the more people can get to easily the better.

I've been told many things were impossible in my life, when I hear that I like to try and prove those people wrong. If I wasn't part of FC and wanted to be, I would be trying to think of new interesting posts and information so I could get in. That is, I think, a very good thing for these boards, as those posts will be here in the main forum!

I've been posting on the net for years, I do it mainly to give help and to try and stop the spread of hype and BS which I feel ruins our sport. I don't often start threads, just respond to them. In nearly two years of posting on PBC I think I had a total of 500ish posts, I don't post for count, I post to help and to debate. If I feel there is somewhere my information can help someone else then to me it's a good thing. If someone see's something there that inspires them to ask more questions here then it's done it's job also. Posts are more likely to stay visible for a longer time there so that may well happen.

I do understand your point. I hope you can see mine and what this forum might achieve, or mean to some people.

manike

[Rooster]

I can understand why industry people want their own forum. You all understand this stuff, and you are paid to do it.

I don't. I don't have time to. I have to concentrate my time on making enough money to stay alive and maybe have enough left to play paintball once that month.

If its an elitest club, then lets be out with it. Tell us that our input is not wanted and lets quit beating around the bush. Tell us we arn't wanted, and not this bit about it being good for all.

If you want your club, have it, but don't feed us BS and tell us its chocolate pudding.

[manike]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rooster:
I can understand why industry people want their own forum. You all understand this stuff, and you are paid to do it.</font>

I'm not in this industry, although I do have aspirations to be, I am not at the moment. I don't get paid to be involved in paintball. In fact it has cost me a small fortune.

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rooster:
I don't. I don't have time to. I have to concentrate my time on making enough money to stay alive and maybe have enough left to play paintball once that month.</font>

I don't even get to play once a month. But I think paintball every day. It's my hobby and distraction from work

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rooster:
If its an elitest club, then lets be out with it. Tell us that our input is not wanted and lets quit beating around the bush. Tell us we arn't wanted, and not this bit about it being good for all. </font>

The requirements to be part of the FC are open. You know what is required. If/When you meet the requirments you will be a member. Is college an elitis institution because you need to meet certain capabilities/criteria...? is a job an elitist club because you need to have certain qualifications/capabilities... It's only elitist if you don't put the effort into becoming a member/getting the job or getting into college. In each of these cases you are judged by others and your peers. That's not elitisim in my mind.

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rooster:
If you want your club, have it, but don't feed us BS and tell us its chocolate pudding.</font>

You've been told why it is there and what potential benefits could come from it. If you wish to see it as something else that is your choice. Nobody can tell you what to think, but they can help you to learn... That's what it is about for me. The ability to learn for myself and to help others to learn.

manike

[Whisky]

Chocolate pudding would be nice. Any one else hungry...?

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"Give me an inch... I`ll give you a bruise" -Andy Kopcok, team Image
Snap Snap
Bang Bang
You`re Out

[Miscue]

Well put Manike.

Hey, I couldn't get on the highschool football team because I'm a scrawny twerp... not because the coach was an elitist. I can't run fast, I can't throw, I can't catch, I can't kick the ball, and the opposing front line could just look at me and I'd fall over and hurt myself.

But if I really wanted to... and I worked hard at it, maybe I could have made the team. But regardless of all of this, I still have a lot of fun watching the game.

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"Sophists play with 65 squares." - Miscue

Miscue's Profile

[Whisky]

That was just a simple quetion. What`s fight club. I think i got enough answer for now.
I have to say that i am very sad about what s going on here. That is realy tearing us apart.
Anyway, i use to like this forum, i am not a posting maniac, my english is not good enough for that, but i use to come here 10 times a day to read every post, but this thing is going to far.
For one thing Tom you were right, you`ve choosen the right name "Fight" club...



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"Give me an inch... I`ll give you a bruise" -Andy Kopcok, team Image
Snap Snap
Bang Bang
You`re Out

[gmag]

I agree with Rooster. This is ridiculous. Not only did you insult my intelligence, not only do I feel excluded and alienated from the "great minds" of AO, but you have also spit in my face. Do you call this a family? The only word to describe this family is disfunctional.

[Rooster]

manike, unless im mistaken, and i often am, you are the guy who writes for warpig about European events. If writing regularly for the biggest paintball information site on the internet isn't being in the industry, i don't know what is.

This whole fight club thing came about and it was billed as a great thing for the family. All the brains would be in one place, and the information would leak down to the masses. When people started saying "hey, i could see this cuasing a massive rift." They were ignored. They are still being ignored.

The criteria is not open, it is completely subjective. When you apply for a job you have a punch sheet of what you have to have to get the job. If they hire someone with less and you were otherwise the same, its discrimination. You know the requirements to get into college. Where do the fight club rules say it takes a 600 on the verbal portion of the fight club enterance exam?

Yes, you are right its just like the football team. Its just like high level paintball teams, its just like elite country clubs where you get asked to join. Which is elitest.

Like I said, if you want an elitest club, have it. I want no part of it, and i never did, that's not what this is about. What this is about is that you want your club, you won't admit its elitest, and you arn't willing to accept the idea it very well could harm the community (which i personally beleive it will).

All I want is for someone to own up.